Boy Scouts and scouting

[dixieangler]

When I was in school I was in the Cub Scouts and then Webelos but never stayed with it to the Boy Scouts. My uncle was an Eagle Scout. Neither one of us ever had any survival or primitive skills training when we were in scouting. Too much community, civics, etc. and other projects in our handbooks but nothing on survival or primitive skills that I recall anyway. I had to do it all on my own. Were we the exceptions rather than the rule or is this not considered essential in scouting?

[coon4492]

Do the boy scouts still do camping or anything in the wilderness anymore? It seems like they're always selling that popcorn. My dad said the boy scouts were different when he was in them. They went on some rather dangerous hikes and camping trips back then. I think I was going to be a cub scout back when I was really little (That was back before I moved out into the woods from Philadelphia) guess I lost interest or something. My family took me on so many hiking, camping and fishing trips it seemed pointless to join the scouts. I just taught myself alot of these survival skills and primitive skills using books and the internet for help.

[swamper]

I's really going to depend on the leaders you have for your Pack and/or Troop as to how active they are in the outdoors. Until you’re in the Boy Scouts most all of you’re camping as a Cub Scout is done family style (non primitive). Shelter Making, Fire Making, First Aid, Knots, Orienteering and other skills are still being taught and put into practical use with the Boy Scouts Troop my son is in. I am also a Assistant Scout Master with his Troop.

[Kingoftheflock]

i have a friend who has told me some really funny boy scout stories. his troop is really messed up, in a funny way. scout leaders are always drunk or stoned, and the scouts sit around a campfire making jokes and screwing things up. he told me once they lost their american flag and the next meeting a kid brought in a british flag that said "god save the queen" and they kept it until the powers in charge told them to take it down. from other troops ive been told some of them are completely out of control and its a place where you can get away with almost anything. i was also told they still do much of the traditional stuff to earn badges, and still go on alot of hikes. but now that people are soft beyond repair, "concerned parents" in some troops have stopped them from doing anything that the previous generation could do. those are the troops from the new jersey/massachusetts/california areas.

as for the girl scouts, theyve dropped to an all time low and are helping homeland security to aid in "emergency preparedness"

http://www.wate.com/global/story.asp?s=11117829

[Running-Free]

Hi Guys,

I'm new arround here, though i've read a lot of the stuff here for a while, And i'll try to contribute some stuff i know and ask some that i don't (as do we all)
I come from the Netherlands/Holland, Europe... (u know, the country in wich Amsterdam i located and not the orther way arround like most Americans think )

I do controle and oversight of city landscaping and anything green in The Hague, my home town and Capital City of my country. That way i can combine a job in my city with my love of nature...
I try to get out of the city an into the wild every chance i get. To get away from city life, or just to learn/hone my skills... Problem with that is that my country doesn't realy have a lot of wild places... We've got some forested hills and thats about it. Holland is, after all, known to be a very flat and wideopen agracultural country...
That forces me to go and look for wild places abroad in the country's surrounding my own. Wich most often takes me to the "Ardennes" region in Belgium. As some of you might know this is the rugged massif that lay between Normandy (France) and Berlin (Germany) and turned out to be quite a holdup for US forces during WW II... It's a great patch of diverse nature having both sloping hills and steep mountains wich grow both leaf and needle. And it's only a 3 hour drive south for me (yes, i live in a small country)...
Six hours away to the east are the Black Woods of west Germany wich is the alternative for my little escapes...
If I'm not there, I usualy go to Scandinavia (either Sweden or Norway) at a day and a half driving and gives me acces to country allmost identilcal to Alaska.
So you see, livig in a small country can make one quite a traveler...

In addition to that, im a boyscout of 21 years and counting (I'm 26 years old). We are whats called waterscouts and our main occupation is sailing and camping on or arround the inland waterways, lakes and rivers. In wintertimes though, we are just like any other eaglescout troop exept that we also have to do maintainance work to our fleet...
I was away from my troop for the past six years. I had a run-in with 'the powers that be' and decided to call it quits, warning them they were distroying the troop... Now, six years later it turned out that i was right. And me and some friends that i left with back then, stepped in to try and build somthing from te ruble that they left.
One could say that say that it'd be ideal to combine my love for the wilderness life with my new role as troop-leader of these scouts. But like the opening post in this topic sugested... these kids know near to nothing about wildlife, woodlore or even the use of a bleedin compass...
So, sadly i can't do both at the same time. And somehow performing preverbial CPR on a troop of scouts leaves me precious little time to escape to the wild.

So... Only one thing to do: Teach! teach and teach some more... And maybe in time I'll have a troop of kids that knows some skills. Provided above mentioned "concerned parents" let me...

Clear paths, sunny trails...

Patrick

[dixieangler]

Unfortunately in this day and age we live in, there is an awful lot of coddling going on (by both parents and governments) to the detriment of the young who don't know anything outside of the government institutions and systems of indoctrination we have put in place in our oppressive regimented societies. This current artificial unnatural society we have created will not last. A real shock may be coming one day from which many may not survive.

[coon4492]

welcome to the forum Running-Free! You know whenever i think of Holland farmland does usually come to mind but I'd rather have a lot of Farms than alot of suburbs. Out here in the states we've been losing a ton of farms and forests to urbanization its been an ongoing battle to save the wilderness areas. Must be nice to take a trip up to the scandinavian wilderness I'd like to visit there atleast once seems like it would be nice.

This current artificial unnatural society we have created will not last. A real shock may be coming one day from which many may not survive.

yea they say that in 40 years oil will become so scarce it will be to expensive to buy. My guess is that, thats the start of our societys downfall. Although alot of people seem to refuse to believe were running out of oil guess we'll have to wait and see what happens.

[hatman]

I was in Beaver and Cub scouts when I was young. I'm not sure if it was just because of the age (under 10) or crappy leaders but I don't think we learned anything worthwhile. If we did, I've forgotten. All I remember is making macaroni pictures at the local fire hall and playing silly games in the church basement. Green hysteria stuff aside, if I had to pick one reason why people don't put much value on learning survival skills, wilderness activities and all this stuff, I would probably say it's because these aren't part of everyday life for the average person. Neither the equipment, nor the lifestyle are part of our lives anymore. You have to actively step outside of the technology available to us in order to learn these things. It's a historical curiosity, an obsession, a hobby, a lifestyle, but not anything everyday. Really, "what disaster will make matches stop working?" -Penn Jillette. Then again, maybe it's all the Mormon's fault, they are pulling the strings at the BSA.

[dixieangler]

Really, "what disaster will make matches stop working?" -Penn Jillette.

If the industrial base of production stops producing (for whatever reason), matches will stop working because there will be no matches unless produced independently. Or if there is an interruption of the supply chain (for whatever reason) so stores will have empty shelves, this is more likely to happen for say a natural disaster.

"It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man." -Psalms 118:8 (David and others)

And the Lord helps those who help themselves first. Help others when you are able.

Then again, maybe it's all the Mormon's fault, they are pulling the strings at the BSA.

Everyone knows the history of the Mormons and its not a good one. The history of BSA is a good one despite its faults of not getting back to teaching basic skills that everyone ought to be able to do (if physically able). The BSA should have those skills as part of its core reason for existing. Aren't these things among others still in the manual or handbooks? If not, why call them "scouts"? Civics should come after skills so that the "scout" can help others using those skills. Its like swamper said, not all Scout Masters are following the core principles of the BSA like they should for whatever reason. Those core principles need to be enforced so that they are taught throughout the BSA. So if the "concerned" parents don't like those core principles that the BSA was founded on, then they have the right not to have their children join rather than trying to subvert the BSA. The Scout Masters are directly responsible for any subversion of those core principles and should be held accountable. The BSA is not for everyone.

[LDS]

The scouts originated as a survival group. Powel was disturbed that most of the deaths during the Boer War occurred due to lack of basic woodsmanship and field hygiene skills. Origional scout training included a ton of shooting, mantracking skills, axe throwing, knife skills, camp maintainence and field hygiene. By the time one completed the basic program you were a well trained militia candidate. Even as late as the 1970s I remember much of my boot camp training was a repeat of the scout handbook.

The antimilitary sentiment after Viet Namn was the end of scouting as we knew it. Rather than military preperation, scouting became a civic action program. Parents actually objected to their sons learning basic military skills and being "exposed to risky and violent behaviors", like shooting, rapelling and carrying pocket knives.

The new program attracted a new type of leadership. One best suited for such long term social planning which included some liberal eliments that were not the best for young men to be exposed too. The term "scout leader" became interchangable with "pervert" and persons that do not have relitives in the troop they lead are suspect. Long term vollenteers left the troops in droves from fear of accusation. (isn't that a good way to eliminate the old leadership and remove objection to the new programs?)

I teach siminars and workshops at parks, historic sites, public schools and private camps, but I will not present to a scout troop if I do not know a the leadership of that unit very well. One must protect himself.

The "new program" seems detirmined to put scouts in front of the TV, just like everyone else. A merit badge for electronic gaming, civic action and computer skills??? I know you guys love your vedio games but get real!

As for areas to recreate. My state is covered with such places. We have one huge tract, The Daniel Boone National forest, that streches for 300 miles across hill and dale from the southernmost border to the Ohio River in the north. There are dozens of WMA and State Park areas covering almost a million acres in KY alone. The real problem is that access is limited to those who drive autos. If you are too young to drive there is no public transport to those areas. No bus service, no rail. If gasoline prices become excessive the travel to these areas is limited. It also presents a problem to section hikers who have only weekends for camping. They have no way to park a car and hike 20-30 miles and return to their vehicle(if it is still there when they return).

This becomes very important as we loose family owned farmland. At one time most people had access to the grandparents farm during visits and vacations. I learned a ton of wilderness skills on the 5 acre patch my grandparents owned. We even had a permenant campsite on the creek and often never slep indoors for the whole two week stay. (we never missed a meal though. Granma was a fantastic cook) They only lived 20 minutes away so I was there every weekend and most holidays with the family. Kids do not have that any more. Granma and grandad live in a condo, inside a gated community, and kids must leave before sundown.

I was also fortunate that I could jump my backyard fence and enter an unlimited tract of nearly empty farmland. Subdivision and town on one side/wilderness on the other side. It was unposted and I made the best use of it imaginable. People back then were glad to see a kid fishing in the creek, or walking the fence row with a .22. You were not tresspassing, you were staying out of trouble and getting some excersise and fresh air.

My opinionated and near fanatical rant is over.

[coon4492]

just a quick off topic question but was Daniel Boone born in Pennsylvania? Someone told me he was and I wasn't sure if he was right or not. I figured you'd know the answer LDS since you said you taught history.

back on topic, I actually was talking with a scout master who was trying to get me to join up. He was selling popcorn outside of borders and the kids looked bored. one of them was text messaging the other was playing a game on his phone. I asked him what kind of survival skills he was teaching the kids and he said "well we talk about the basic essentials like how fire and water are important in the woods" I just gave him a weird look and said "isn't that common sense?" "don't you teach them different ways to actually make a fire like with a bow drill?" He just said "oh well some parents don't want their kids playing with fire I think it's best I don't let them get any kind of hands on learning we just discuss it, it keeps all the parents happy" I asked him if the scouts still did any kind of shooting or firearms saftey training and ofcourse he gave a similar response. Now I know why my dad didn't get me into the scouts he just taught me all these skills himself I guess he knew what the boy scouts had become. You know there's a funny King of the Hill episode about this with the scout master that has camp outs in the library lol. You gotta watch this clip from the episode hanks reaction is great.

http://www.hulu.com/watch/46726/king-of-the-hill-straight-safety-arrow

[LDS]

Boone's Father was named Squire Boone (also his older brother's name). Squire was one of the founders of the Reading PA settlement. Daniel was born in that area. The family migrated to the Yadkin Valley of NC when Boone was young. Daniel's mom owned a heard of milk cows that she had to move from pasture to pasture with the seasons. That ment she had to stay with them, far from home, and milk them. Daniel went to the woods hearding the cattle for his mom and kept them fed by killing rabbits with a throwing stick. He was 9.

Daniel got his first rifle for his 12th birthday and disapeared the next day, not to be seen again for three months. When he returned he had 600 deerhides for sale at $1 each. Daniel was never known to do physical labor after learning he could support himself as a pro-hunter.

He was not the best of wilderness survivalists. He was known to get lost on occasion and nearly starved to death a couple of times.

Boones life was a heroic tragedy.

[dixieangler]

The antimilitary sentiment after Viet Namn was the end of scouting as we knew it. Rather than military preperation, scouting became a civic action program.

It ended well before that. My uncle was an Eagle Scout before he went to Vietnam so they were not teaching any survival, primitive, or military skills even then. At least not in his troop.

[coon4492]

my dad actually looked up his old troop and found out they're still doing alot of camping and survival teaching. The other troops consider them to be an "intense" troop. well atleast there are some troops still teaching the old skills