Invasives as opposed to ornamentals

[dixieangler]

I thought I would start this topic thread since "your_comforting" brought it up in another thread. The other thread I had was more for landscaping ornamental plants. I did use the invasive Mimosa tree and it worked on itself for a friction set. I thought its growth was limited to back yards and roadsides in and around the cities but obviously it is not. I really noticed a lot of Mimosa in the woods today that I have not seen before as I was looking for wild blueberries and huckleberries (no luck there yet). These do seem to be new growth or young Mimosa. Maybe it is spreading into the woods at a faster rate now than before. The real concern is hopefully it won't choke out a lot of the native trees, shrubs, and plants.

[LDS]

Up here in KY we are now having a difficult time telling the invasives from the natives. Some of the kids think the japaneese ornimentals are real honeysuckle and osage is native. All of our native grasses have been replaced by fescue and we have in turn lost our entire cottontail/quail population.

The native cover in my area was origionally upland cane and that is entirely gone now except for small groves. People actually think the trashey, brush covered hillside thickets are natural vegitation. What we call "woods" is actually second growth brush that harbors little diverse life.

[kailii]

At least the bees are fine over here. Wished i could send you some...

Anyway, two thumbs up for adapting. !

[LDS]

Bees, another invasive species!

People do not realize that honey bees are not native to North America. They are as much an invasive species as the africanized version we now fear. They are not the natural pollinators of the crops we depend on most. The native american crops of corn, beans, squash were not grown with bees anywhere around. They were brought by the settlers from Europe.

[dixieangler]

Don't get me started on the other bee, "killer bees", guys. Already found in Tampa, FL. Let us just say Hitler and Stalin stopped killing when they were dead but the Africanized Bee murders by Doctor (biologist) Warwick E. Kerr will go on long after he is dead. He and his unrestrained genetic engineering kind are far deadlier than any dictator has been. The death sentence is too good for him. A first class international criminal. Far more deaths over time from his habitat altering deeds than those from a dictator's lifetime of killing. Then there are those that dump, lose, or otherwise introduce exotic invasives in habitats where there are no natural predators and then destroy the native habitat. These are the second class of international criminals. There is a limit to adapting to a habitat that has been so altered by introduced hostile species as to be unrecognizable from its previously passive state. And it just gets worse as more and more exotic trash (that should be against the law) is brought in. Such habitats can eventually be rendered unlivable if the invasives are not stopped.

At least the bees are fine over here. Wished i could send you some...

For now. It is not a question of if it becomes a European problem but when. Killer bees will eventually be in Europe also. This killer bee thing is not going to stop in the Americas. We have all kinds of exotic trash from all over the world that get dumped here and Europe is not immune from it either. The native European honey bee will be a thing of the past.

[kailii]

Robert, LDS,
i am at a loss of words to respond to your postings and feelings. Let me try anyhow and let's find out what is bothering you.

Killer bees? Of course they exist, at least if you believe in them. A single sting can be deadly to a man already suffering from an illness or desease or even being treated with antibiotics.

Now please read that last word again, antibiotics. Your holy and glorious fears of the unknown, or in other words your almost inpregentable belief in the wisdom of your doctors and your medicine, FORCE you to believe that there can be only one way, namely the way of your doctor.

Both of you never ever thought about alternatives. Isn't this strange? I am the deafest newbie compared to you guys when it comes down to wilderness skills, yet you never thought about replacements for your medicine in a primitive environment.

Antibiotics. Anti means against, countering. Biotics is Biology, in other words life. Don't you see it? Antibiotics is a counter measure for life! And with nice side effects too...

Back to bees. Without them, a lot of plants won't blossom, and you won't be able to reap the fruits of harvest that you have planted earlier in the year.

They need you, those bees. To prepare safe compounds for them to strive, and you need them to prepare for harvesting your plants.
That's nature, and it's that easy.

So welcome your "killer bees" already, goddarn!
Wolfgang

[dixieangler]

Let me try anyhow and let's find out what is bothering you.

Simple. Folks who kill other folks by their actions of introducing hostile species in environments where such species do not belong.

Back to bees. Without them, a lot of plants won't blossom, and you won't be able to reap the fruits of harvest that you have planted earlier in the year.

They need you, those bees. To prepare safe compounds for them to strive, and you need them to prepare for harvesting your plants.
That's nature, and it's that easy.

Wait a minute. Africanized bees are not some naturally occurring species in "any" environment. These abominations were produced by some megalomaniac genetic engineer that has the blood of many folks on his hands. These bees attack in swarms of hundreds and thousands inflicting as many stings that kill anything living, dogs, cats, humans, they don't care they just kill. Not even antibiotics (as you call them) will prevent someone from dying with hundreds of bee stings. The amount of venom or dose of venom from hundreds of bee stings is too much for the human body to deal with even if not allergic to the venom. They destroy the naturally occurring (meaning not some genetic mutant, not that it occurs naturally in the US) European honey bee and take over its hives. They do not produce honey or pollinate on the scale that the natural European honey bee does. Thus destroying the honey industry and limiting pollination for many plants that depend only on the European honey bee. All killer bees do is kill.

[LDS]

Both of you never ever thought about alternatives. Isn't this strange? I am the deafest newbie compared to you guys when it comes down to wilderness skills, yet you never thought about replacements for your medicine in a primitive environment.

Kali, you poor soul. Pray you never wind up on heart meds. You will not be scraping moss off a tree to deal with that. Best case senerio, I have about 3 months of pain after the meds run out, then I die. My goal with the study of wiolderness survival is to get home as quickly as possable, not become one with the universe. That is why it is called surviving and not "moving to the woods".

Back to bees. Without them, a lot of plants won't blossom, and you won't be able to reap the fruits of harvest that you have planted earlier in the year.

None of the plants native to North America require bees for pollenation. Bees of any type, European, african or africanized are not native to NA.

They need you, those bees. To prepare safe compounds for them to strive, and you need them to prepare for harvesting your plants.

The bees do not need us. They lived for millions of years before man even came along and many of my beekeeper friends harvest the wild hives and transplant them. They will do just fine on their own.
That's nature, and it's that easy.
Wolfgang

[dixieangler]

I did not want this thread to degenerate into the ethics of flora and fauna invasives, just invasive flora that are used in producing fire. Let us try to confine our subjects to that topic. Thanks, fellas.

[dixieangler]

I have tried using the invasive Brazilian Pepper here that grows all over the place but usually where there is at least a little water. Brazilian Pepper is a lightweight hardwood. It is suppose to be toxic. Some folks have a skin reaction from its essential oils but it never has bothered me. It grows little red peppery berries that American Robins get high on. Anyway it did not work for me as a friction wood due to its hardness but I do use it at times for the bow part and the socket part. I like to try and use hardwood for sockets as most of the spindles I use are medium to soft wood and therefore do not grind away the socket as severely. Regardless of the type of wood I use for a socket, I do lube the socket and/or the spindle top to reduce the friction there. It is no fun to have the socket get so hot that you cannot hold it. So I lube the socket with some plant leaf that has a high oil content if possible. Or I will rub the spindle top on the sides of my nose to oil it. Ear wax can work also. I have used pine sap for a lube but it is less than satisfactory for me.

I have not used the invasive Australian Pine (not really a pine). It is also suppose to be toxic. Inhalation of its needle dust is not recommended as toxins affect the lungs over prolonged periods of time. I will not use it due to the toxic inhalant nature of this wood. This tree was purposely introduced by the state government to dry up wetland areas (same for the invasive Paper Punk Tree or Melaleuca). It did not work. Now the government is conducting an ongoing eradication program of these two invasive trees.